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Nick: N.E. Brigand (Registered User)
Date/Time: Sun, 10/30/2005 at 21:48 EDT
Browser/OS: Microsoft Internet Explorer V5.01 using Windows NT 5.0
In Reply To: ‘Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit’. Open Discussion  <squire >  [10/28/2005 @ 22:48]  (18/30)
Subject:
"May the Valar turn him aside!"
Message:

Thanks, squire!  I've simply run out of time to continue working on your fantastic posts.  (I'm up with the next two weeks' secondary discussion of Letters, and I'm far behind on another project as well.  Plus my work remains quite busy.)  As usual, great stuff.  I'm looking forward to your next discussion, if there is one (though perhaps you are not).  To touch on just one of your ideas for further investigation:

Mablung's Damrod's invocation of the Valar.  I'm surprised you didn't bring this up earlier, as you used it in your footer during the Valaquenta discussion, IIRC.  This, the observance of the West at Henneth Annun (or was that the Elves looking East -- what did it say in the special Tolkien issue of The Chesterton Review?*) and Gandalf's exclamation at Aragorn's coronation are the three statements about the theology of Middle-earth that I remember best from the main text of the LotR (the only other explicit mention of the Valar that I can find in the main text is in a comparision of Théoden and Orome).  As we've all come to recognize, there are quite a few references to some higher powers (not always the "Valar," and so infrequently by name that "higher powers" may be the better phrasing) at work; NZ Strider made a nice list of such references here in 2002.

But why this particular mention?  This is our first taste of Gondorian society, and perhaps Tolkien means to suggest the latent nature of their theology with this reference.

But is Gondor like that?  I am reminded of some comments that you made when we read Tolkien's aborted sequel, "The New Shadow:"  "It is rather shocking to read of Eru, the Children, and the Theme in a Gondorian conversation.  One wonders when that kind of knowledge and thinking became common in the Fourth Age, since there's no sign whatever of it in the Third!"  NZ's post possibly shows something more than "no sign" but I agree that the change is substantial.  Tolkien tried to explain it in Letter #156: 

So while God (Eru) was a datum of good Númenórean philosophy, and a prime fact in their conception of history, He had at the time of the War of the Ring no worship and no hallowed place.  And that kind of negative truth was characteristic of the West, and all the area under Númenórean influence: the refusal to worship any 'creature', and above all no 'dark lord' or satanic demon, Sauron, or any other, was almost as far as they got.  They had (I imagine) no petitionary prayers to God; but preserved the vestige of thanksgiving.  (Those under special Elvish influence might call on the angelic powers for help in immediate peril or fear of evil enemies.)  It later appears that there had been a 'hallow' on Mindolluin, only approachable by the King, where he had anciently offered thanks and praise on behalf of his people; but it had been forgotten.  It was re-entered by Aragorn, and there he found a sapling of the White Tree, and replanted it in the Court of the Fountain.  [This letter was written before the TT or RotK had been published, though the recipient, Fr. Murray, may have read parts of them in proof. -N.E.B.]  It is to be presumed that with the reemergence of the lineal priest kings (of whom Lúthien the Blessed Elf-maiden was a foremother) the worship of God would be renewed, and His Name (or title) be again more often heard.  But there would be no temple of the True God, while Númenórean influence lasted.

(Isis discussed the question of religion in Letter #156 here, but only Curious responded.)

Well, that's what Tolkien had in mind, anyway; whether or not he got it across is debatable.  His sequel took place more than 100 years later, probably enough time for a religion to get established (along with counter-cults, apparently).  The bit in Tolkien's letter about Gondorians "under special Elvish influence" invoking the Valar -- might that help to emphasize the Elvish character of Ithilien, since Damrod and the other Rangers descend from families who lived there?

Finally, it's curious that we get nothing like Damrod's cry from Boromir, as say, when he sees the Balrog.  A sign of his pride?   Or a case of Tolkien failing to revisit and re-write after he developed his ideas about what Gondor would be like?


*For the curious: look for the Eastward-praying Elves in A.N. Wilson's essay, "Wagner for Kiddies?"

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