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Nick: squire (Registered User)
Date/Time: Thu, 12/16/2004 at 23:29 EDT (Thu, 12/16/2004 at 22:29 EST)
Browser/OS: Microsoft Internet Explorer V6.0 using Windows NT 5.0
In Reply To: What leads you to believe  <Curious>  [12/15/2004 @ 17:47]  (1/4)
Subject:
You shouldn't drop quotes from other people's usages.
Message:

I didn't say I was cynical, you did. I don't agree, so I used the term in quotes to keep that clear. I said Tolkien was 'cynical' - quote/unquote - to highlight that he agreed with my views - so characterized by you - on the survivability of pacifists in the real world.

I guess I thought the connection between my statement:

"Again, like all real pacifists, [Frodo] exists in a world where he is protected from harm by non-pacifists: Sam in Mordor, the other Hobbits in the Shire during the Scouring. He chooses a role for himself of moral superiority, dispensing pity and mercy, asserting that this has a value and a worth during the conduct of a war that is equal to the physical superiority of the warriors who accompany and guard him. As in any society that accepts the existence of pacifists, the warriors honor this choice, which allows them to show no mercy whatever."

and Tolkien's comments:

"[Tom's] is a natural pacifist view, which always arises in the mind when there is a war. But the view of Rivendell seems to be that this it is an excellent thing to have represented, but that there are in fact things with which it cannot cope; and upon which its existence nonetheless depends. Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron."

was clear. The agreement is not exact - why should it be? - but it is much closer than I had expected from your reference to it.


"Wake up and smell the coffee."


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