IGN.com TheOneRing.net Newbie Guide
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Links
Home
The Movies
Spy Reports
Features
Barlimans
Discussion
Main
Reading Room
Movie Discussion
The Arena
Gaming
Feedback
Fan Section
Gaming Havens
Green Books
Community
Shop
Newbie Guide
Archives
Site Info
TBHL

<<< - << Prev | Reading Room | Next >> - >>>
Message Thread - Collate Replies - Post a Reply - FAQ

Nick: Modtheow (Registered User)
Date/Time: Wed, 12/1/2004 at 1:25 EDT (Wed, 12/1/2004 at 2:25 ADT)
Browser/OS: Mozilla Browser V5.0-rv:1.7.5 (11/07/2004 build) using Windows 98
In Reply To: Frodo: "everyman" or saint?  <Entwife Wandlimb>  [11/30/2004 @ 22:33]  (2/17)
Subject:
You took the words...
Message:

...right out of my subject heading.  I like your idea that we can see a tension in the logic of the story when trying to answer the question of whether Frodo (and Sam) are saints or Everyman. 

On the one hand, Frodo is considered the best hobbit in the Shire by Gandalf and Bilbo, and he does seem to be destined by some providential power to take on the adventure.  Also, it’s clear from the beginning that he is not like other hobbits – he seems to be “deeper,” to have an interest in things that are more important than the narrow-minded concerns of most of the Shirefolk. So in these ways, Frodo doesn’t start out as being completely ordinary, although he does share a love of many of the ordinary things beloved by other hobbits. His reluctance and lack of confidence in setting out on the quest make him seem like an unheroic Everyman. However, later in the journey, when Sam sees at a couple of different times a light shining from within Frodo, Sam seems to be looking on some extraordinary being, a creature who is transcending ordinary physical existence.

While I agree with Curious that Frodo’s humility, self-sacrifice, and spiritual strength are what make him special, even saintly, I don’t see his mission as an uncomplicated success.  To be completely saintly, I think that Frodo would have had to give up the Ring at the final moment.  He falls just short of an impossible ideal when he claims the Ring – not that we blame him because who else could have taken the Ring even that far? – but there is this moment of failure.  And I think that it’s in that moment that Frodo looks most like the modern “failed” hero that drogo-drogo was talking about.  I also wonder whether this moment isn’t a reflection of how men often thought about the events of the First World War --  no matter what kind of heroic effort an individual might make, there were forces that were too overpowering to allow them to succeed.  The book that Squire mentions in another post, Paul Fussell’s The Great War and Modern Memory, talks about how ironic twists in events and situations seemed to characterize the experiences of those in the First War -- just when they thought things were going one way, there would be a sudden turn of events in an unexpected direction.  Having Frodo get to Mount Doom, after an incredibly harrowing quest, just at the point of completing his mission, and then having Frodo suddenly claim the Ring, with Gollum popping up and destroying it for him, strikes me as one of those ironic twists that characterized many World War One experiences. (Paul Fussell also talks about how soldiers could be idealized by war writers as Christ-like figures – this view is reflected in the saintly Frodo, I think.)

I think that Sam is much closer to the ordinary Everyman, although he too shares some of Frodo’s and Bilbo’s beliefs in a life beyond ordinary Shire concerns.  There is something special about him even before they set out on their journey.  But through most of the journey, he is like the ordinary soldier or batman who gets called on to do progressively more and more courageous things, until you see the extraordinary stuff he’s made of.  And then, like most ordinary soldiers in the First War, he just wants to get back home and reintegrate into ordinary life.  Frodo, on the other hand, is like those soldiers who were wounded either physically or mentally and could not make that return to ordinary life.

The Reading Room

Ooo... another great book on philology!

Password to delete message:  



TheOneRing.net Rumour Mill's RPGBoard script (V2.22) was created by Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper of Resonator Software.  It is copylefted under the conditions of the GNU Public License (GPL).  It can be freely distributed and modified as long as it retains its GPL status. 


home | contact us | back to top | site map | search | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 2000 TheOneRing®.net. TheOneRing® is a registered service mark with exclusive right to grant use assigned to The One Ring, Inc. Unique Design by DesignHeroes.com