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Nick: Galadriel1a (Registered User)
Date/Time: Tue, 11/30/2004 at 19:06 EDT
Browser/OS: Mozilla Browser V5.0-rv:1.0.2 (02/08/2003 build) using Macintosh PowerPC
In Reply To: Marquette Conference Discussion--John Garth #1: Frodo and the Great War  <galadhremmin>  [11/30/2004 @ 3:02]  (8/56)
Subject:
interesrting!!(spontaneous thoughts)
Message:

1) What do you think of the idea that LoTR represents an attempt to find an accommodation between traditional ideals of glory and heroism on the one hand,  and Tolkien's (and his generation's) specific experience as Edwardians torn from their safe and relatively
prosperous lives and thrust into the horror of WW I, on the other hand? Does it affect your enjoyment of the book to think of it from this point of view, and if so, positively or negatively?
Without having read the book I think this corresponds well with my own impression of Lotr. it gives a depth to the novel that(in my opinion) someone like C.S. Lewis lack. Tolkien writes in so much of his own feelings.
2) Are there other authors from this period who seemed to be writing
about the passing of heroic ideals as Tolkien does (if you agree with
Garth), in a spirit of mourning, but preserved hope,  that contrasts with a more pervasive postwar zeitgeist of cynicism and disillusionment?
I would say Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier. Comparing Maxime de Winter first wife, the reckless and admired Rebecca with his new more humble, not so admired but more loving wife.
In them we can see the different ideals in feminine form.
Also the burning of Manderley for good and for worse represents the same change in society that took part after WW1,that Tolkien writes about.
3) Any other thoughts on Garth's observations about how Tolkien and his contemporaries wrote about heroism?
I read quite a long time ago a book about the civilization process of the human mind(I don´t remember the name nor the author) There was a passus about war. How it was seen upon in different times. First there was a recording from I think the 5th century AD that said something like war is wonderful, the flowing of blood ect.ect...then there was
something from the around 11th century
saying something Boromir/Eomerlike.The last one was a early renaissance man who said war was wonderful because on the battlefield you loved your friends so much and you were prepared to do so much for them.Thought alien for someone of today.On the other hand the Illiad written much earlier is in essence anti war. In fact it was written after hundreds of years of darness and war when greek civilization began to see a new light.
I think that many who went to WW1 thought it would be something quite different than it was. Not because they were psychopaths before the went to war, but because they had been taught that war was heroic.
When Faramir says war is a necessary evil, Ghandi says it is a unnecessary evil.Frodo becomes not passive but a pacifist.
Also the attitude of European leaders
reflects in character like Denethor and the Witch king.
The comment of viceroy of India who was brought to a field hospital was something like" I did not know that the working had so white skin" Also the tactics of the English
in WW1 was to throw in more troops,disregarding loss in human lives.
A lot of thoughts I hope it makes any sense.

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