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Nick: Curious (Registered User)
Date/Time: Fri, 4/2/2004 at 7:21 EDT (Fri, 4/2/2004 at 5:21 CST)
Browser/OS: Microsoft Internet Explorer V6.0 using Windows 98
In Reply To: Anduin shouldn't be fordable but apparently is  <squire >  [4/2/2004 @ 0:30]  (1/3)
Subject:
Tolkien may be thinking of the Thames,
Message:

which at one time was fordable near the present Westminster, just upstream from downtown London, where the first bridge was built.  However the Anduin is much longer than the Thames, and I agree that it would have to be wide indeed to be fordable at Osgiliath or Cair Andros.

Note, however, that despite several references to fords at Osgiliath, there is also some evidence that the river cannot be easily forded at that point.  Boromir says the following at the Council of Elrond:

"Only a remnant of our eastern force came back, destroying the last bridge that still stood amid the ruins of Osgiliath.

"'I was in the company that held the bridge, until it was cast down behind us. Four only were saved by swimming: my brother and myself and two others."

And when Aragorn leads seven thousand men to the Black Gates, this is what they see at Osgiliath:

"Ere noon the army came to Osgiliath. There all the workers and craftsmen that could be spared were busy. Some were strengthening the ferries and boat-bridges that the enemy had made and in part destroyed when they fled; some gathered stores and booty; and others on the eastern side across the River were throwing up hasty works of defence."

Also, the master palantir of Osgiliath, the largest of the seven stones, was lost in the Anduin during the civil war in Osgiliath.  It seems unlikely that would happen in a shallow, fordable river.

Furthermore, the quote in my previous post, from UT, indicates that the Druedain probably crossed the Anduin at Cair Andros, not at Osgiliath, despite the fact that they came from lands to the south of Mordor.

We know that Aragorn and his men took boats from Cair Andros to Osgiliath at the end of LotR, indicating that the river was navigable between those two points.  And later Legolas built his ship in Ithilien, and sailed it down the Anduin and across the sea.

So despite the references to the fords of Osgiliath, there seems to be some question about whether the river was fordable at that point.  Could the "fords of Osgiliath" refer to the fact that the river was narrow enough for ferries and boat bridges at that point, rather than to a shallow, wadable ford?  That doesn't seem like an accurate use of the word "ford," but it does seem more consistent with what we actually know about crossings at Osgiliath.


“I dislike Allegory - the conscious and intentional allegory - yet any attempt to explain the purport of myth or fairytale must use allegorical language.  (And, of course, the more 'life' a story has the more readily will it be susceptible of allegorical interpretations: while the better a deliberate allegory is made the more nearly will it be acceptable just as a story.)” (From Tolkien Letter # 131.)

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