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Nick: Tar-Telperien (Registered User)
Date/Time: Fri, 1/16/2004 at 4:21 EDT (Thu, 1/15/2004 at 22:21 AHST)
Browser/OS: Microsoft Internet Explorer V5.5 using Windows ME
In Reply To: Durin’s Folk #23: Far-Stretched Hand of Sauron  <Daughter of Nienna>  [1/15/2004 @ 18:26]  (3/4)
Subject:
"The power of terror and of hate..."
Message:

1. Attack on Dol Guldur "… Gandalf had at last prevailed upon Saruman and the White Council to attack Dol Guldur". Q: Did Gandalf try before to convince the Saruman and the White Council to attack Dol Guldur? Why did it take so long to decide to attack?

Apparently he had. Saruman didn't want to attack because he wanted to find the Ring himself and it would be easier to do that if Sauron was still in the general area, which would cause the Ring to reveal itself (or so he thought).

2. Secure in Mordor: "went to Mordor, there to be secure, as he thought, from all his enemies.". Secure from whom? What about Mordor, besides the obvious mountains, would provide security for him? Isn’t he closer to his enemies?

Mordor has been Sauron's home for a long time. Everyone feels safer in their home : ). Plus, he couldn't imagine any reason for his enemies to infiltrate Mordor, unfortunately for his welfare (note the "as he thought" addition in the text)!

3. Sauron’s Right Hand: far-stretched right hand Sauron might have done great evil in the North. Q: What evil? What would the North look like with Sauron in Power of it?

Like the rest of the world would if he gained control of it, I guess; no more tourist attractions left in ME!

5. Go King Dáin!: "It was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say that he did, standing over the body of King Brand  before the Gate of Erebor until the darkness fell." A dwarf defending the body of a dead man to the death! Any thoughts on this image? He has become my favorite Dwarf after Gimli! Do you see him as a mighty hero?

I also like Dáin. He seems to possess great wisdom and character, not too often seen in most of the Dwarves in this discussion. The idea of a Dwarf fighting for the body of a man is sobering, given the hostilities between the two races in the past. Perhaps it brought back memories to him of the defiling of Thrór's body, and he wanted to save Brand from that sort of dishonor however he could.

7. . Sauron: Chicken or the Egg: (These thoughts and questions have been following me around that I don’t have a conclusion for yet.)
According to the myth Sauron is a being unto himself more or less. A being to fear as an enemy. An enemy that periodically gets defeated, but never really goes away.
Questions for consideration: Does he regain power because evil is growing within the beings of Middle-earth? Another way to put it might be: is he a sort of ‘out-growth’ of Middle-earth inhabitants evil choices and actions (evil as Tolkien uses it)? Or, at the least, perhaps, he is allowed to be and flourish due through neglect and vigilance against the forces of evil within themselves as well as without!? I have come to believe that it is not just a force of evil outside but within as well. That it was not just Sauron creating all the trouble as some ‘force over there’  but also the choices and actions of the inhabitants of middle-earth that allow for the ‘spirit of Sauron to endure’. Like the Ring, it is both at the same time. Not just one or the other. That it is not so black & white as good versus evil in such extreme terms. Any thoughts or UUTs of similar or thought or of opposing thought regarding Sauron and the source of evil?

Oh, yes, there is much to be said here. Tolkien, being a Catholic, definitely believed in the idea of Original Sin, and it often shows up in the characters in his Legendarium, I think. There are evil forces and cirumstances all around his characters that can influence their life decisions, but in the end it's always they who choose their fate, for better or for worse (usually for worse, as in our world). Neglect is a large factor in the history of Middle-earth: the neglect of the Valar to overthrow Morgoth, the neglect of Isildur to destroy the Ring, the neglect of the Gondorians to watch over Mordor; I could go on and on. As for Sauron, he was an "egg of the chicken of Melkor" to use your analogy. Indeed evil resides in the people of Middle-earth, since it itself is tainted so heavily with the evil of Melkor; how could it be possible for anyone to escape it wholly (Arda Marred). Even the Valar had to face the fact that the earliest Elves brought their evil with them into Valinor. Here's some (probably not exact, I'm going from memory here; furthermore they're somewhat taken out of context) quotes from The Silmarillion to chew on:

"Yet the lies the Melkor the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir the power of terror and of hate, are a seed that cannot be destroyed, and ever and anon they bear dark fruit among Elves and Men..."

"...it has passed from the high and the beautiful into darkness and ruin, that of old was the fate of Arda Marred."

_______________________

Lament of the Roadirrim

Where now the car and the driver? Where is the horn that was honking?
Where is the gas and the mirrors, and the bright lights flooding?
Where is the hand on the gear shift, and the turn signal flashing?
Where is the brake and the dashboard and the taillights glowing?
They have passed like Nascar racers, like a truck on the freeway;
The roads have gone down in the West behind the hills into suburbs.
Who shall gather the parts from the junkyard rusting,
Or behold the fuel again combusting?

By Tar-Telperien, with apologies to J.R.R. Tolkien

Numenorean
Numenorean


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