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Nick: Curious (Registered User)
Date/Time: Mon, 11/3/2003 at 13:33 EDT (Mon, 11/3/2003 at 11:33 CST)
Browser/OS: Microsoft Internet Explorer V5.01 using Windows 95
In Reply To: Children of the Ainur  <Alveric>  [11/3/2003 @ 5:35]  (1/2)
Subject:
Interesting point
Message:

about the Roman Catholic view of marriage as being primarily for procreation.  It is this kind of theological problem that may have prevented Tolkien from publishing The Sil during his lifetime.

But before you conclude that Valar and Maiar other than Melian have children, note these quotes:

"In any case is it likely or possible that even the least of the Maiar would become Orks?  Yes: both outside Arda and in it, before the fall of Utumno.  Melkor had corrupted many spirits -- some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs.  The least could have been primitive (and much more powerful and perilous) Orcs; but by practicing when embodied procreation they would (cf. Melian) [become] more and more earthbound, unable to return to spirit-state (even demon-form), until released by death (killing), and they would dwindle in force...."

Morgoth's Ring, p. 410.

"Luthien was through her mother, Melian, descended also from the Maiar, the people of the Valar, whose being began before the world was made.  Melian alone of all those spirits assumed a bodily form, not only as a raiment but as a permanent habitation in form and powers like to the bodies of the Elves.  This she did for love of Elwe; and it was permitted, no doubt because this union had already been foreseen in the beginning of things..."

The Peoples of Middle-earth, p. 364, Note 53.

Tolkien seems to say that Melian is in some sense unique, and yet at the same time that followers of Melkor may also have had evil children without permission and at great cost.  And these quotes do not say whether Ungoliant should be counted as one of the Ainur.

But really, what difference does it make whether we call Ungoliant, Caradhras, and Goldberry’s mother Maiar or other spirits?  Tolkien also failed to explain the spirits that were apparently recruited to become Ents and Great Eagles and Mearas and Huan and other sentient animals.  And what, as NZStrider might ask, about the fox in the Shire, or of Saruman’s spying birds, or the thrushes and ravens in The Hobbit?  Don’t all the animals in Middle-earth seem to have some kind of sentience?  And all the waters and hills and mountains too?  Middle-earth seems to be filled with spirits, good, neutral, and hostile.  There are endless enigmas.  I submit that what really distinguishes Bombadil, and leads people to speculate endlessly about his nature, is his apparent immunity to the Ring.


“I dislike Allegory - the conscious and intentional allegory - yet any attempt to explain the purport of myth or fairytale must use allegorical language.  (And, of course, the more 'life' a story has the more readily will it be susceptible of allegorical interpretations: while the better a deliberate allegory is made the more nearly will it be acceptable just as a story.)” (From Tolkien Letter # 131.)

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