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Nick: drogo_drogo (Registered User)
Date/Time: Thu, 10/16/2003 at 7:58 EDT (Thu, 10/16/2003 at 5:58 CST)
Browser/OS: Netscape Navigator V4.0 Custom using R1 1.1)
In Reply To: The Arthurian tales were overtly Christian.  <Curious>  [10/16/2003 @ 6:22]  (2/2)
Subject:
LOTR is myth intruding into realism, not the "myth" itself
Message:

Excellent points about the distinction between the "legendarium"--the assemblage of epic tales Tolkien spun over the course of a lifetime--and the novelistic LOTR.

The "mythic" elements of Tolkien reside more in the Sil and in the many fragments, revisions, and rewritings of the whole HoME series.  Many first time Sil readers complain that it's like the Bible which lacks concrete detail and narrative cohesion which provides it with what for lack of a better term we can call "human interest" (or hobbit interest; Tolkien was deeply worried that his loyal readers would balk at the lack of hobbits in it if it were published).  To all that I say yes, the Sil is vague because that is what myths are like.  All mythological writing, the details are sketchy, there are revisons, contraditions, embellishments, etc., to the basic tales.  Myths are passed down from multiple sources, and always vary; look at how Classical Greek myths come down to us from Homer through other Athenian writers and then from Roman sources.  Tolkien achieves much the same effect, perhaps simply through his tendency to nit-pick his stories and his notorious inability to declare a story "finished."  The rough, ever-changing contours of his broad mythic roadmap--the music of Iluvatar as it unfolds throught the earliest ages of Arda to the final end (too pressed for time to link to NZ Strider's repost of the eschatology thread)--form the basis of the "mythology for England" that Tolkien was creating.  Now I must add that this mythology is really a wholly artificial one in that it is the product of one man's eccentric writing habits and not the natural accumulation of centuries of oral and then written tradition and narratives.  Yet the fact that a single Oxford don could replicate something like the mythic output of ancient civilizations in his spare time between tutoring students is what always amazes me.

Now as Curious very rightly points out, LOTR is a hybrid of the kind of mythic, epic narrative found in his other fragmentary writing with a 19th-century novel, so it is not really "mythic" in itself.  It is the sudden, violent intrusion of myth into the workaday world of realism (best embodied by those little surrogate Victorian Englishmen, the hobbits).  The mythic superstructure of Middle-earth is only dimly discernible throughout LOTR.  LOTR is also laden with linguistic and historical detail to give it the illusion of a living world, and in that sense differs from myth as well.  Think of it like the cuneiform tablets of ancient Sumer naming their rulers, or the accounts of battles preserved in archives or monumental inscriptions, versus the Sumerian epic Gilgamesh.  LOTR "fleshes out" the "modern" history of the Arda of the lengedarium, leaving the earlier ages to the realm of myth (note how much detail we get in the appendices about the Second and especially the Third ages versus how little we get of first Age).

I will leave the discussion of Beowulf and Celtic mythic to others who know more than I do and are qualified to speak on that topic.  Tolkien's view, though, was that England's native mythology had been lost and much of what was preserved, like the Danish Beowulf or the French Arthurian legends, were not indigenous to the land.  It does take a lot of hootzpah to think that you can single-handedly weave a mythology for your land to make up for millennia of lost legends! :) That is either inspiriation, or megalomania!



     "'Never laugh at live dragons,
Bilbo you fool!' he said to himself,
and it became a favourite saying of
his later, and passed into a proverb."
             --The Hobbit

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