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Nick: RurouniKJS (Registered User)
Date/Time: Wed, 10/1/2003 at 9:48 EDT
Browser/OS: Microsoft Internet Explorer V5.21 using Macintosh
In Reply To: The Tower of Cirith Ungol Discussion #5:  *hmmm*  Samwise the Strong . . .that has a nice ring to it !  <jflower >  [9/30/2003 @ 22:02]  (7/36)
Subject:
A picture of Tolkien's view of power
Message:

"Q:  What are your thoughts on the Ring’s reaction to having its home in sight?"

It's mentioned elsewhere, when Sam uses the Ring just outside of Mordor, that the darkness Sauron has created hampers his ability to spot the Ring. Possibly, then, there is a line-of-sight factor at work here, even in things of mystical power, in Tolkien's world. Consequently, a direct line of sight to Mt. Doom seems to resonate with the Ring's power.


"Q:  What are your thoughts on Tolkien using Sam instead of Frodo to show the effects of the Ring?"

It shows that it tempts each bearer differently. Gandalf it would have corrupted his good intentions so that good would seem like evil in the end. Galadriel it played upon her Feanorian lust for beauty and mastery.


Q:  Does establishing the effects of the Ring through Sam effectively carry through the rest of the story and onto Frodo for the reader?

Somewhat. We know already that Frodo has had a bad time of it, particularly in the Morgul Vale, which I think was a more effective showcase of the Ring's growing power. But here we see how cruelly it afflicts a new bearer, and subtly learn that its power, great before, is now magnified.

"Q:  What do you think about Sam’s power fantasy?  Any guesses or thoughts on what power fantasy Frodo would have had in this position?  What specifically is Tolkien saying about power in this passage?  What do you think about Sam really seeing and feeling that he has only two choices to pick from in regards to what he should do?"

As stated before, the Ring tempts everyone with their great personal passion. Sam's fantasy of creating a great garden is quite fitting. In fact, this is the single clearest example of the Ring's power to tempt, even more than Galadriel's. It's also the most absurd, thus showing how false each of the temptations are. In the end, none of the visions would be reality; it's all a trick of the Ring to either reveal itself to its Dark Lord or to be wielded by a new one. It's a bold statement of the illusory nature of what the world considers "power," especially power not granted by God and wielded as his emissaries (of which Gandalf is chief in this story). For in Toklien's Christian worldview, every moral decision breaks down into those two choices: to refuse evil or to choose it.

As for what power fantasy Frodo would have had, I do not believe he would have had one. He'd borne and resisted the Ring for too long to be subject to simple illusions. Contrast this with Gollum, who had never once resisted the call of the Ring until being mastered by Frodo. No, Frodo, had already made his choice to forbear the Ring's evil power, and he claimed it only when his entire will and strength was spent.


Q:  Did this part of the passage seem more intended to prepare the reader to reestablish Frodo as Ring-bearer to you?

Of course! It also sets us up for Frodo's fall. Sam is far more the simple hobbit than the "noble" Frodo. One can infer from this passage that Frodo is more vulnerable to the Ring's delusions than his servant. Where Sam simply rejects what the Ring offers on account of it being impractical and more than he wants or needs,  Paradoxically, it's also his noble nature that enables him to last so long under the Ring's power. Would Sam have done as well? I doubt it; I think his love for Frodo would have overridden his hobbit sense and the Ring would have used this to their undoing, as it nearly did when Sam crossed into Mordor, seeking to save his master, while wearing the thing. Only Sauron's own created darkness saved him from this folly.

"Q: what are your thoughts on the passage highlighted with bold text?"

I see no bold text...

"Q:  Anything I missed in regards to this passage?  Speak now or forever hold your piece"

Hold my piece? My piece of what?

Oh, you meant "hold your PEACE." :)

-----------------------------------------
"In that hour I looked on Aragorn and thought how great and terrible a Lord he might have become in the strength of his will, had he taken the Ring to himself. Not for naught does Mordor fear him."

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