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Nick: gullygilly (Registered User)
Date/Time: Fri, 8/15/2003 at 10:16 EDT
Browser/OS: Microsoft Internet Explorer V6.0 using Windows 98
Subject:
Book V Chapter IV: The Siege of Gondor #20-- Burn baby burn
Message:

‘Here we will wait,’ he said. ‘But send not for the embalmers. Bring us wood quick to burn, and lay it all about us, and beneath; and pour oil upon it. And when I bid you thrust in a torch. Do this and speak no more to me. Farewell!’

‘By your leave, lord!’ said Pippin and turned and fled in terror from the deathly house. ‘Poor Faramir!’ he thought. ‘I must find Gandalf. Poor Faramir! Quite likely he needs medicine more than tears. Oh, where can I find Gandalf? In the thick of things, I suppose; and he will have no time to spare for dying men or madmen.’

At the door he turned to one of the servants who had remained on guard there. ‘Your master is not himself,’ he said. ‘Go slow! Bring no fire to this place while Faramir lives! Do nothing until Gandalf comes!’

‘Who is the master of Minas Tirith?’ the man answered. ‘The Lord Denethor or the Grey Wanderer?’

‘The Grey Wanderer or no one, it would seem,’ said Pippin...

 

  1. Was cremation used in Gondor? Cremation does have a Slavic tradition (and Tolkein does pull from this).  Christian tradition recognizes burial (most common), cremation (especially in times of plague) or burial at sea. And I do know early Hebrew beliefs required that the body to be buried underground... I've included these interesting articles in the  Catholic Encyclopedia on both  Christian Burial  and Cremation to read if you're interested in history and religious beliefs.   

  2. Why does Denethor choose this way out? Is he so full of despair?  Earlier he showed Gandalf and Pippin his armor and said he was ready to meet Sauron. Could part of it be he is afraid to meet Sauron face to face? Here's another very interesting article in the  Catholic Encyclopedia on the church 's stance on suicide. Reading this you'll see that Frodo's path is positive and indirect; Denethor's negative and direct. Comments/observations?

  3. Denethor is one of Tolkien's most complex characters. When reviewers criticized LotR  for being "simple minded" (Letter 154), Tolkien  points to Denethor as one example of its complexity (Letter 183). Characters in Tolkien are generally good or evil. Do you think Denethor is a 'grey' character? 

  4. Didn't Pippin swear to obey Denethor? To quote my husband, "soldiers must follow orders. It's their duty.  It's not up to them to chose." I argue with him that there are instances when a soldier must go beyond orders and listen to their conscience.  I wonder how many obey Denethor out of duty, and how many do it out of fear. Comments/observations?

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To Reverend:

 

Alas, we cry for us today--

A dearest friend has gone away.

As we recall his words we read

And weep for words not to be said--

Remember what our eyes enclose:

The lasting imprints of his prose.

The purest tribute our heart rends

Is written within  minds of friends.

 

                                         ~ CA Jolin

`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^

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