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Nick: Calenia (Registered User)
Date/Time: Sat, 3/15/2003 at 14:00 EDT (Sat, 3/15/2003 at 10:00 PST)
Browser/OS: Mozilla Browser V5.0-rv:1.0.1 (08/23/2002 build) using Windows 98
In Reply To: Very true...  <Ossė>  [3/15/2003 @ 13:31]  (2/3)
Subject:
Oh, we agree on all points
Message:

But, as an Istar, he was sent by the Valar, reduced in power, more because the Valar feared causing fear among men or making a mess of the place, which normally happens when they get directly involved.

That's another way to put it, making a mess which normally happens when they get directly involved. Better to let things work themselves out then try to tweak them.

The Istari appear as wise, old men -- wise and old so that people will listen to them; men so that people will not feel compelled to accept their advice, that is, afraid to reject it. If they appeared in their power -- who would dare say no?

And if you think about this quote from the Sil - Ainulindale,
"And some have said that the vision ceased ere the fulfilment of the Dominion of Men and the fading of the Firstborn; wherefore, though the Music is over all, the Valar have not seen as with sight the Later Ages or the ending of the World",
none of the Valar and Maiar (including Sauron, Gandalf, Saruman, etc) could not have been sure what was going to happen next...

Exactly. I think about that often.

Another reason not to try to manipulate events, and why they make a mess of things when they get involved. One of the reasons they can't see all ends, of course, is that humans, orcs, elves, hobbits, ents, etc., all have free will, and while the Valar can to some degree predict what they will do, they still suprise everyone, even the Wise, at times.

Makes a much more interesting story, I think.

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