IGN.com TheOneRing.net Newbie Guide
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Links
Home
The Movies
Spy Reports
Features
Barlimans
Discussion
Main
Reading Room
Movie Discussion
The Arena
Gaming
Feedback
Fan Section
Gaming Havens
Green Books
Community
Shop
Newbie Guide
Archives
Site Info
TBHL

<<< - << Prev | Reading Room | Next >> - >>>
Message Thread - Collate Replies - Post a Reply - FAQ

Nick: Kiskadee (Registered User)
Date/Time: Thu, 1/16/2003 at 18:16 EDT (Thu, 1/16/2003 at 17:16 EST)
Browser/OS: AOL Browser V5.0 using Macintosh PowerPC
In Reply To: The Bridge of Khazad-Dum #25:  Notes on Dwarven Engineering  <Reverend>  [1/16/2003 @ 1:26]  (14/19)
Subject:
Dwarvish technology speculations
Message:

1.  How do the Dwarves keep water from coming down their light-shafts?  

I'll go with those who propose some sort of water catching device at the end of the shaft. 

2.  For that matter, how do they arrainge drainage throughout the whole of Moria? 

I  don't think the dwarves' deepest shafts were above the water table or above ground level -- which would leave the shafts dry or easily drainable , respectively.    Therefore, I   have to conclude that the dwarves possessed steam engines or the Middle-earth equivalent.

Before the steam engine,  mines were pumped out by various methods (see excerpt below) but none of them worked well enough  beyond a depth of about 100 meters or so.  It was apparently only the invention of the steam engine driven pump that allowed  water to be pumped out from greater depths. One could speculate that the dwarves must have possessed some sort of technology equivalent to a steam engine in order to truly plumb the depths.  


Excerpt from the following:  http://www.history.rochester.edu/steam/lord/2-3.htm

The development of drainage in the tin-mines is important, as it is the immediate cause of the commercial success of the steam-engine which, in its turn, is the central fact of eighteenth century history.

In the earliest gravel or stream works the water was carried out in wooden bowls, or was carried off from the working in a " level " or trench leading from the work to the river. Later came the windlass turned by man-power, then small hand or force pumps, contemporary with which in the larger works was the adit. The adit was similar to the level only driven through the hill-side to meet the shaft at its foot. This last was expensive and temporary, because as soon as the shaft was driven deeper additional apparatus had to be used to raise the drainage to the level of the adit. Various mechanical pumping devices worked by man-power were also tried, but the severity of labour they entailed on the men working them15 made them unsatisfactory and costly. Water wheels were used in some mines, but as their power was limited a deep mine needed two or three wheels one above the other to clear it effectively. In place of these combinations of wheels, John Costar, in 171O, successfully used a single large water-wheel to drain some of the deeper mines. His invention, however, was quite overshadowed by that of the steamengine.16 .......

The first working steam-engine was constructed in Devonshire by Thomas Savery. He was a clever engineer, and among other discoveries he made a paddle boat to move without wind. ... He made a steam-engine in which the steam was alternately condensed in two vessels, causing a vacuum into which the water from the pit was actually sucked, thus avoiding any pumping apparatus.

See also http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blsteamengine.htm and
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~lira/supp/steam/

The second reference includes a nice picture of how it works.

2. 2/3 sounds reasonable to me.  Maybe Gandalf wasn't very comfortable where he was seated.
3.  Sounds good to me.

4.  I like the secret door idea.
 
5.  Stone seems like a perfectly reasonable material to me.  I wonder if the bridge was a natural arch that the dwarves shaped for their own purposes.

CHALLENGE
As the Dwarves hollowed out these truly vast works extending for miles under three mountains, what did they do with the tailings?

Hmmm, I suppose I thought of Moria as consisting of some natural caverns (reworked of course)  as well as "dug" passages.    That would cut down on the amount of tailings.   Perhaps they threw a bunch of them into the "bottomless" abyss below  the bridge  ?

                                  ******************************************
We who still labour by the cromlech on the shore,
The grey cairn on the hill, when day sinks drowned in dew,
Being weary of the world's empires, bow down to you,
Master of the still stars and the flaming door.  --W.B. Yeats

Password to delete message:  



TheOneRing.net Rumour Mill's RPGBoard script (V2.22) was created by Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper of Resonator Software.  It is copylefted under the conditions of the GNU Public License (GPL).  It can be freely distributed and modified as long as it retains its GPL status. 


home | contact us | back to top | site map | search | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 2000 TheOneRing®.net. TheOneRing® is a registered service mark with exclusive right to grant use assigned to The One Ring, Inc. Unique Design by DesignHeroes.com