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Nick: Curious (Registered User)
Date/Time: Mon, 12/2/2002 at 9:03 EDT (Mon, 12/2/2002 at 7:03 CST)
Browser/OS: Microsoft Internet Explorer V6.0 using Windows 98
In Reply To: Many Meetings 11:  The Reunion  <Kiskadee>  [11/30/2002 @ 22:58]  (8/8)
Subject:
My belated thoughts.
Message:

1) What is the reason for Frodo's reluctance to show Bilbo the Ring?  Is it concern for Bilbo or something else?  Did it occur to you at this point that Frodo would not be able to give up the Ring in the end?  Or, like me, did you blithely assume that of course Frodo would be able to overcome the Ring?

A.  Frodo may have sensed that Bilbo did not have the purest of motives when he asked to see the Ring, which brought out Frodo's own possessiveness.  Again, I cannot remember what I thought when I first read the book.  In hindsight, reading "The Shadow of the Past," it seems obvious that Frodo could not throw into the Cracks of Doom what he could not bring himself to throw into his own little fire in Bag End, a fire which, as Gandalf had just demonstrated, could not harm the Ring.

2) Is the vision of Bilbo that Frodo sees a sort of mirage caused by the Ring working on Frodo?  Or is Frodo actually seeing “beyond the veil” as he did with Glorfindel and looking at Bilbo’s soul as it is worked on by desire for the Ring?  Do you think  Frodo’s lingering “transparency” from the Morgul-knife wound gives him the ability to perceive things beyond the abilities of most mortals? 

A.  I do NOT think Frodo was looking at Bilbo's soul, which surely was quite pleasant.  If anything, I think the Ring might have made Bilbo look worse than he really was, not better, as Frodo's possessiveness for the Ring kicked in.  The ambiguity about whether Bilbo changed in more than just his demeanor is classic Tolkien -- subtle magic, always subtle and possibly just a trick of the imagination.  Film, by necessity, makes the magic far less subtle.

3) Why does Bilbo pass his hand over his eyes?  Wouldn’t it make more sense for Frodo to be the one who rubs his eyes?  So you think Bilbo saw something when he looked at Frodo?  Or was it just that he saw hatred on Frodo’s expression?

A.  As others have mentioned, I think Bilbo needed to block out the sight of the Ring to return to normal.

________________________________________

"‘I think he was a silly little man,' said Councillor Tompkins.  ‘Worthless, in fact; no use to Society at all.'

"‘Oh, I don't know,' said Atkins, who was nobody of importance, just a schoolmaster.  ‘I am not so sure: it depends on what you mean by use .'

"‘No practical or economic use,' said Tompkins.  . . .

. . .

"‘It is proving very useful indeed,' said the Second Voice.  ‘As a holiday, and a refreshment.  It is splendid for convalescence; and not only for that, for many it is the best introduction to the Mountains.  It works wonders in some cases.  I am sending more and more there.  They seldom have to come back.'"

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