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Nick: NZ Strider (Registered User)
Date/Time: Tue, 10/1/2002 at 15:38 EDT (Wed, 10/2/2002 at 8:38 NZDT)
Browser/OS: Mozilla Browser V5.0-rv:1.0.1 (08/23/2002 build) using Macintosh PowerPC
In Reply To: This is the danger...  <Watson>  [10/1/2002 @ 9:21]  (2/9)
Subject:
Can I answer to both your responses here?
Message:

The whole topic belongs together.  My answer to one of your points would be that use of the Ring (not necessarily use of the Ring's powers) is enough.  Second, despite the way I structured my post, I had already formed my opinion before I found the passage in "The Treason of Isengard".  I'm aware that the use of authors' outlines and such can be slippery -- but so can the use of authors' afterthoughts, esp. when they're trying to prove what they meant to say.  At any rate, I don't see necessarily that the passages which you have quoted from the letters make the case you advance, certainly not to the exclusion of others; I too quoted some of the same texts to advance my argument.
      Likewise, when you quote the following passage from the RotK:

"A crouching shape, scarcely more than the shadow of a living thing, a creature now wholly ruined and defeated, yet filled with a hideous lust and rage; and before it stood stern, untouchable now by pity, a figure robed in white, but at its breast it held a wheel of fire."

Note that when you imagine it visualluy, it parallels exactly the scene from the taming of Sméagol.  And my answer back to you as regards your interpretation would have to be: Why has Frodo become untouchable by pity?  Why has the Ring been able to gain such complete ascendancy over him?  When "Frodo" speaks to Gollum in the next lines, Sam hears the voice coming from the wheel of fire.  The Ring has taken over. 
     The two scenes, from the Taming and from Mt. Doom, in my view must be set side by side.  Guideline for my interpretation is this, the tag from Wagner: Des Ringes Herr ist des Ringes Knecht, the Ring's lord is the Ring's slave; a sentiment expressed by Tolkien again and again, both in the text of the LotR as well as in the Letters. 
     In the first scene Frodo uses the Ring (in your responses you admit the formulation) as his instrument to control Gollum.  In the second the Ring is using Frodo as its instrument. Des Ringes Herr ist des Ringes Knecht.  These two scenes have so much more point when read this way.

__________________________________

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king. 

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